A very good friend of mine (who oddly enough was on the debate team with me back in high school) posted some rage about Starbucks backing gay marriage:
So naturally an argument broke out between everyone who read it. Some good points were made and some very hateful angry things were also blurted out (like any fb "debate") but when the OP finally came back to answer to what he started, I felt it was time to write this... sorry buddy, you know I can't step down from a good debate.
The Bible is exceptionally clear on this matter and someone saying otherwise is either misinformed or willfully ignorant. The Lord does not mince words in this situation and your disagreement is with Him; not me. That being said, there is also no difference between homosexual sin and heterosexual sin, but let's reason together. This debate has never been about marriage, but rather about the hearts and minds of future generations to accept as normal what the Lord plainly calls iniquity. Loosely, it can be related to encouraging polygamy in our youth as "normal". Couldn't the case of "inequality" be made to allow polygamy? We all have weakness in our flesh and some have to struggle with homosexuality while others struggle with pride, addiction, greed etc. My reaction to seeing someone involved in this sin is grief; not anger. I earnestly desire that they repent and turn to Him who can love and restore them, not hang them from a tree. Their pride over their sin is what troubles me, not the fact that they sin as we all fall short, but thanks belong to Christ for His atonement. In essence, their pride is attempting to usurp the Almighty God's sovereignty and that is nothing to boast over.So let me break this down for you, and hopefully you will read this, and not just cast me off as some Godless harlot like so many have before, because I am not Godless, I'm just a liberal Episcopal Biologist that tries to see things logically through my passionate heart.
So first off, you should know my church's views of homosexuality to know what I've been taught in the religious realm. Here is a brief history of the Episcopal Church's views on homosexuality via Wiki:
And from that 2006 General Convention the heads of my church had this to say:
Gender and sexuality
- In 1976, the Convention declared that homosexuals are "children of God" and "entitled to full civil rights".
- In 1979, the Convention endorsed the Equal Rights Amendment and urged legislatures to ratify it.
- In 1988, the Convention reaffirmed the expectation of chastity and fidelity in relationships.
- In 1991, the Convention restated that "physical sexual expression" is only appropriate within a monogamous "union of husband and wife". The Convention also called on the church to "continue to reconcile the discontinuity between this teaching and the experience of members", referring both to dioceses that have chosen to bless monogamous same-sex unions and to general tolerance of premarital relations.
- In 2000, the Convention affirmed "the variety of human relationships in and outside of marriage" and acknowledged "disagreement over the Church's traditional teaching on human sexuality."[102]
- The 2006, General Convention affirmed "support of gay and lesbian persons as children of God"; calls on legislatures to provide protections such as bereavement and family leave policies; and opposes any state or federal constitutional amendment that prohibits same-sex civil marriages or civil unions."[103]
- The 2009, General Convention affirmed that "gays and lesbians (that are) in lifelong committed relationships," should be ordained, saying that "God has called and may call such individuals to any ordained ministry in the Episcopal Church."[104] The Convention also voted to allow bishops to decide whether or not to bless same-sex marriages.[105]
"we call on all our people to minister pastorally and sensitively to all irrespective of sexual orientation and to condemn irrational fear of homosexuals, violence within marriage and any trivialisation and commercialisation of sex," and noted importantly: "We commit ourselves to listen to the experience of homosexual persons and we wish to assure them that they are loved by God and that all baptised, believing and faithful persons, regardless of sexual orientation, are full members of the Body of Christ."Yup, my church asks that I not only love and listen to homosexuals, but I do what I am doing now- condemn irrational fear of homosexuals. I also am proud to say that my church has now several openly Gay Bishops in monogamous healthy relationships. Oh and fun news, my church is now
So you can see why I wouldn't believe for religious reasons that homosexual marriage is a horrendous thing, but lets look at WHY my church choose this route of thinking. I mean as my friend states " The Bible is exceptionally clear on this matter and someone saying otherwise is either misinformed or willfully ignorant:" Well, perhaps my religious teachings were wrong? Maybe I have been misinformed, but I am certainly not willfully ignorant... I'm a scientist after all, that would devastate me.
So lets get to the scripture then. I nabbed this from a bible.org article on homosexuality:
Then there is homosexuality which likewise is condemned in Scripture. The Apostle Paul, writing by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, declares that homosexuality "shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (I Corinthians 6:9; 10). Now Paul does not single out the homosexual as a special offender. He includes fornicators, idolators, adulterers, thieves, covetous persons, drunkards, revilers and extortioners. And then he adds the comment that some of the Christians at Corinth had been delivered from these very practices: "And such were some of you: But ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the spirit of our God" (I Corinthians 6:11). All of the sins mentioned in this passage are condemned by God, but just as there was hope in Christ for the Corinthians, so is there hope for all of us.
I feel like I haven't seen the sort of uprising and hate from Christians when it comes to the other things listed in this verse that I have seen for homosexuality, when was the last time you saw a line of protesters outside of a frat house saying "drunkards revilers and fornicators are going to hell"... or even outside of a bar?! I just can't see why if all of these sins are equal, why are we so forgiving of some of them, but so harsh on the others? We are all sinners, face it... but that's why we have Jesus right? To forgive us of our sins? I do rather enjoy the last sentence of this paragraph: "just as there was hope in Christ for the Corinthians, so is there hope for all of us". I think this says it best. He goes on to quote the most commonly quoted verse on this subject though:
Homosexuality is an illicit lust forbidden by God. He said to His people Israel, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13). In these passages homosexuality is condemned as a prime example of sin, a sexual perversion. The Christian can neither alter God's viewpoint nor depart from it.
Also, in the last few years my church has been preparing
Where is this rage for those who break the 10 commandments? Adultery and drug use don't seem to strike this sort of hate from my friends and family when the bible is MUCH more clear on these matters. The bible also speaks of things we reject as a society today, because lets face it 2000 years ago things were very different. One specific case would be rape- the bible says that if a man is caught raping a woman, he has to pay her father 5 silver and marry her, since she is now damaged goods. That made sense back then, but today things have changed. Women aren't considered damaged goods if they have been raped, cause it wasn't their fault (if you believe otherwise, I'm sorry but I show no sympathy for you). Rush Limbaugh is praised by too many conservatives, yet he has lied, cheated, and is in no way a Godly man.... why have so many focused so finitely on a few very unconvincing passages? You say it is all so clearly written, but I have read 5 different interpretations of Levidicus over the years... and my Jewish friends all say in hebrew it's talking about something entirely different. So, why all the hate?
My church has been struggling with this issue since 1998, but today it has settled and come to a much more peaceful and (in my opinion) enlightened view:
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